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Posted by Donald F. Blair [173.144.74.33] on Friday, October 01, 2010 at 08:59:04 :
In Reply to: Original Serial # & Title help posted by Big E [74.100.14.27] on Thursday, September 30, 2010 at 22:50:36 :
The state you live in may well have a bearing on what you may or may not be able to do. I would recommend starting with your local Dept. of Motor Vehicles. In the interim, I had been planning to share my recent experience with the State of Maryland, this seems like a good time. WARNING: Long Post Ahead.
About 10 years ago I bought an early
1941 WC-6 with a great body (and disclosed mechanical issues) from a good guy in the Hagerstown, Maryland area where I live. He had a clean title dated 1970 from the man he bought the vehicle from. The vehicle had a MD state assigned VIN#. Since it was a vintage MD vehicle sold to a MD man there was no inspection required. Furthermore, the vehicle needed a lot of serious shop time for complete re-wiring, tie-rod ends, water pump, generator, etc. Since it was going to be non-op while that work was being done, I
figured to wait on actually registering the sale and getting a title in my name. So, 10 years, a divorce and life flies by and the opportunity to sell it to Bob Stopka in Panama City came up this summer. Bob had seen it several years ago when we first made friends and stopped by each summer to visit what I came to call "Bob's Command Car" to differentiate from my keeper "Millie" an MVPA Best in Class WC-6. Having two, Bob sold a beautifully restored WC-4 and applied the proceeds to the purchase of "his" command car. He came through this summer as usual to give her a real close look before writing the check. He knew that in Florida, he would have to have it inspected and the VIN verified. So, for the first time, we looked for the VIN plate or chassis number.
Well, the title indicated a State assigned number, but no plate was to be found anywhere!We figured the first thing to do was for me to register the vehicle and get a clean, current title. Once that was done, I figured I'd tackle the VIN issue. No problem with the title. Once I had that in hand, I went back and explained that I couldn't find the VIN plate and could I get a replacement issued like I could with a lost license plate. Not so fast. I was told that I would have to bring the vehicle to the main MVA headquarters in Glen Burnie, Maryland - a round trip of 150 miles! Correct that, a round trip on a rollback of 150 miles. Figure 3-4 dollars per mile, plus the driver's stand-by time. To further complicate
the issue, the state garage that does these inspections and issues the plate is only open 3 HOURS A WEEK ON TUESDAY FROM 9-12!
I visited the local Sheriff's dept. to see if an officer could do something in my driveway. NOPE. The only place in the entire state of Maryland that will deal with this sort of problem is in Glen Burnie 3 hours a week.
I recommend AAA Plus membership. The first 100 miles of a tow is free. I worked something out with the tow company to have AAA cover the first 100 miles and we made a separate deal for the balance of time and mileage that was fair. We get to Glen Burnie at 11:00 am, the tiny shop office is a madhouse, but they were all there for other issues, amazingly "my man" was not busy. He filled out forms, disappeared and about 15 minutes to 12:00 pm I get called. The first thing the inspector says is "driver her in for a complete mechanical inspection. This was news! I explained it was non-op, I wasn't going to drive it in Maryland, I only needed a valid VIN for an out-of-state sale.
He said non of that mattered but he's talk to his supervisor. Okay, they'll waive the mechanical inspection. Good thing, because we'd taken the windshield off to reduce stress and drag and even if she ran, she would not have been passed without the windshield. At this point he finally looks at the VIN number on the original title and slowly realizes that not only is the plate not there, there is no indication one had ever been mounted (4 holes in a pattern).
40 years ago, they gave the owner the plate to put on. Now only they can do it. He tells me that he will check the archived microfiche records, He writes down every possible serial number: frame serial number which I had carefully exposed by using lacquer thinner and fine steel wool to take the paint down to bare metal. The engine serial number and the body tag. He says if any of these numbers appear on the original paperwork, we'll be good to go, but not to get my hopes up, these things rarely work out.
I ask, so what is Plan B? He tells me that I'll have to take it back home and petition the court for a Writ of Mandamus in which a judge will ask the MVA if they have any objection to issuing a new VIN number. The man I'm telling me this says that he will be the man to answer for the MVA. He says he'll have no problem. At that point I can bring it back, but this time I assume it has to be running and complete with windshield since I'd finally been told that such was the requirement. I've used my last of 4 annual AAA 100 mile tows. As the heat rises and the hours drag on...Finally our guy appears with a handful of print-outs and says, "You're in good shape! The engine serial number matches the original records!". He wouldn't give me copies of the records or let me see them, but I did glimpse enough to see that it had come from Virgina into Maryland in 1969.
Another line and other long wait and I got the forms approved to issue the new VIN plate. The original number was history.
My guy riveted the most beautiful business-card sized piece of aluminum I've ever seen and we were finally legal. Bob could have his command car. He also took digital images of the frame number, engine number, body number and views of the vehicle from all sides for the newly up-dated records.
I asked about having the chassis number registered. He said no. It makes sense. As hard as those numbers are to find, I can't imagine a police officer or trooper crawling up under the fender in the dark of night and slush of winter.
My command car has a Virginia issued Vin plate. My 1952 M38 has a Pennsylvania issued Vin plate. I think you'll find that this is a common practice.
When I say that Glen Burnie is the only place in the entire state to conduct this business, I mean it. It is a long way from Ocean City or the far, far western end of the state, doesn't matter, it has to go to Glen Burnie.
Lesson Learned: Make sure that you have a clean title with a matching VIN No. BEFORE buying anything! If not,now what you're state is going to require and have that in mind when negotiating a price. I will NEVER go through this again.
If your state offers an assigned VIN take it.
It's all you are likely to get.
End of story.
Don