Posted by Sean on Monday, September 15, 2003 at 1:56PM :
In Reply to: You just posted..... posted by MoparNorm on Sunday, September 14, 2003 at 9:47AM :
I had said I would not post any further on the forum about this topic. But you seem to be conflicted – you abjure me for making long posts and “wasting bandwidth” and yet you continue to post responses to my posts, as if you want to continue the discussion. I can’t continue the discussion without posting, unless I e-mail you directly. By doing that, however, I deny myself a public voice, on the forum, and therefore the opportunity to explain myself to anyone following this discussion.
I don’t know why I bother, since your goal seems to be to deliberately misconstrue or misinterpret everything I write. I suppose I should have gone with the direct approach from the beginning, but I was fed up with having to read yet another political rant (by Andersen) and chose to vent my frustration. If I had simply stated what I wanted, directly and unadorned, the point would have been made, but would it have been given any more consideration? I think not. I have put your words in quotes to aid in comprehension.
“You may think it is sarcasm now that you have had time to think about it, “
I don’t THINK it was sarcasm, I KNOW it was sarcasm, I WROTE IT. It is YOU who seem to have been confused, hence my attempt to explain.
“but your first post was just as political as the the opinion of others, except it was off base. “
How was it political? How was it off –base exactly? I took Andersen to task for using a an on-line memorial for the deaths of people he didn’t know as an excuse to label Democratic candidates as “anti-American” when, for all he, or anyone knows, the very people that were memorialized, would have voted for any one of the candidates he chose to label anti-American. That’s not political, that’s pointing out Mr. Andersen’s bad taste and poor logic.
“If you think it is wrong to post non-Dodge topics, but posted anyway just to jerk my chain as you say (by the way my chain is too long and heavy for you to jerk!) what is the point?? “
I covered that. I don't think it is "wrong" but rather rude and inconsiderate. I did it to show you how disagreeable it is to read junk that has nothing to do with Dodge trucks. I have already stated that. If as you say, I am not successfully pulling your chain, then why do you bother to respond at all? If I was really beneath your notice, you wouldn’t have jumped in to a “conversation” that didn’t involve you in the first place.
”It seems a little bizare to post such long posts in order to state that you don't like long posts about non-Dodge topics.”
Not so much bizarre, as a sad commentary on your seeming inability to comprehend.
”As far as bandwidth, I help pay for this bandwidth, and Joe has been most gracious in not limiting my speech. (I can't tell you what he e-mails me,,ha!ha!)”
So you mean it really IS the Mopar Norm political forum? Why doesn’t it say that at the top of the page? Then we’d all know. Why hide it?
“The excuse that you were funning rings hollow, since that point wasn't made until your other points were exhausted. (by the way, I bet a lot of guys are reading these posts just to see where they go! ha!ha!)”
I was not “funning” I was being sarcastic. I am serious that I do not want to read your constant political tirades. I am not “funning” about that at all. I didn’t say I was “funning” I said I was being sarcastic. Those are two different things. Please, read what I write carefully. Dig out the dictionary if you have to. Sarcasm is not by any means synonymous with "funning" ha! ha!
“Several hundred words to tell us that we shouldn't be talking about all of this and using so much space? “
I remind you that YOU broached the topic of bandwidth, not I. If you are so concerned with wasting bandwidth, then you wouldn’t bother to post either. I am not concerned with wasting bandwidth, YOU are. I am concerned with being able to read about trucks without having to read your constant complaining about what a rotten place California is and how the liberals are ruining everything. If it takes me several hundred or several thousand words to convey that idea, then so be it.
“ponder that irony the next time you are trying to label a Dodge loving conservative as racist, intolerant and reactionary”
When and where did I do that? Show it to me Mr. “get your facts straight”. Although I don’t see what the Dodge Brothers ethnicity has to do with this discussion, for your information, they were not Jewish. If you’d pick up an encyclopedia, or head down to the local library and look them up in any of the biographical texts there, you’d learn that they were born Methodist. Their grandfather, Ezekial Dodge, of English descent, moved to Niles, Michigan from Salem, Massachusetts. Their mother, Maria Duval Casto, a Methodist, was Pennsylvania Dutch and French. Jewish descent is matrilineal. Later in life, they both attended Presbyterian churches, donating handsomely for buildings, and to the Salvation Army. To make it easy on yourself, go here:
http://www.dodgebrothersclub.org/faq/index.php?op=view&t=8
It is not known, to this day, exactly why they adopted the six pointed star as their original logo, or even if they were aware it is sometimes called a Mogen David, a traditional Jewish symbol. If you are actually interested in learning about the Dodge brothers, and not just one for throwing around assertions as facts, then I can recommend these two books personally:
Dodge Dynasty : the car and the family that rocked Detroit
Caroline Latham; David Agresta 1989 Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich
ISBN: 015125320X; LCCN: 88-16467
The Dodges, the auto family fortune and misfortune
Jean Maddern Pitrone, Joan Potter Elwart 1981, Icarus Press
ISBN: 0896511502 :; LCCN: 81-6684
You will, I don’t doubt, be pleased to learn, that the Dodge brothers were both Republicans.
“My offer is always open, go to the Sweptline.org forum and post away, conservatives don't want to limit wrong headed thought, just correct it so that America will be a better place, a place that our Founding Fathers envisioned, not a place that Lenin or Marx envisioned.”
I will not accept your offer to go to the sweptline forum and discuss politics with you or anyone because that is exactly what I DON’T want to do. I want to be able to go to a forum about trucks, and read about – guess what? Trucks! Isn’t that simple? What could be easier? You’ve got a forum about home repair, and you write Q&A about home repair. You’ve got a forum about taxidermy, and you write about taxidermy. You’ve got a forum about trucks, and you write about trucks. What’s so hard to figure out?
I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe in noise pollution and would like very much not to have to deal with it. I can believe in freedom of speech without being subjected to off topic opinions. It’s like being at a traffic light next to someone with a loud stereo. They have the right to listen to whatever it is they want, but I have the right to ask them not to subject me to it.
As far as what our founding fathers envisioned, who are you to say what they envisioned? How is what you think any more valid than what anyone else thinks? The Constitution is constantly being interpreted, and re-interpreted on a daily basis. It is the strength of the document that it was written to allow it grow with the times. It is the nature of law to be interpreted, and re-interpreted as cases come up. That’s how the law works. It is a constant process of evaluation and re-evaluation; it is not set in stone, as it appears your opinions are.
When I come to this forum, it is for education (about trucks), edification and entertainment – to see who is selling what, to share what odd ball things I find on EBay (or where ever) etc. But it is truck related. Not politics related. I am sorry that my approach to conveying my point was either too subtle or to obscure, or just poor communication on my part. To restate:
I would consider it common courtesy if, in future, despite the fact that you are paying for the bandwidth, you and others would confine your comments on the forum to the topic that the forum SEEMS to be about – Dodge Power Wagons.
If not, perhaps the forum banner should change to reflect your chosen role as political pundit? Truth in advertising, you know? I realize my request has fallen on deaf ears, or perhaps, ears which were closed to any voice but your own long ago and that you will more than likely continue to post what you please. So be it. I cannot, you cannot, say I did not try.
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